Project Tupolev Team :: View topic - Take-off with noise abatement procedure.

ABastos · Êóðñàíò

Hello,

I'm studying the exercises of Flight Manual, and I have a doubt on takeoff with noise abatement procedure.
The manual says that we need to reduce thrust on 450m ( If a noise control point and noise level are not clearly regulated), to mantain 3-4 m/s.
To achieve this rate of climb with v2+20 I need reduce to 70% N1 (average), but when the N1 % goes below from Nominal, a alarme starts (I guess it's the alarm of flap without landing gear down).
How can avoid this problem ?

Best Regards

Alexandre Bastos

Bell · ÊÂÑ

Switch off the alarm on the F/E panel or pay no heed to the siren.

ABastos · Êóðñàíò

VMPP · Êóðñàíò

Noise abatement????????????????????????????

It's because these stupid Eurocrats that we don't see 727's, Il-62's, Tu's, etc... in Europe anymore.

F*#k the people on the ground, tu's are a great sight witnessed by us.
I Still remenber the Cubana Il-62 blasting through the skies. At the time we were kids and we couldn't hear each other talking even when the plane was out of sight....Soooooo Loud.... Ðàäîñòíûé

But nevertheless everybody would wait for it every day and could hear it coming even before it appeared in front of our eyes.

And lets not get started with cars......Eurocrats.....

ABastos · Êóðñàíò

Again .. me and takeoff with Noise Abatement Ñ÷àñòüå

I have been training exercises 2 and 3, both with noise abatement procedure on takeoff, but I still have some doubts.

I'll use the takeoff on Exercise 2 to exemplify.

After liftoff, gears up, I need to maintain V2+20km/h with takeoff power till 450m. When aircraft reaches 450m I reduce the power and reduce climb between 3 or 4 m/s (Ok ok ! I know Bell [thanks!], if siren starts, switch off on FE panel Ðàäîñòíûé

). Ok, till this stage, no doubts.

On the SID used on Exercise 2 (the exercise 3 uses a similar procedure too), we need do a left turn with 5.4nm DME (at least) and 900 meters of altitude. Now, my doubt: at this time, I'm flying with V2+20, with Flaps 28°, with a small rate of climb. Can I start the turn at 900m and at the same time exit from the noise abatement procedure (increasing power to nominal regime, and retract flaps when aircraft accelerate) ?

If yes, the SID determine 25° of bank angle, and bank angle warning light go on (because I'm flying with flaps 28). How can I solve this ? Should I avoid flaps retraction on turns ?

or

If No, I have continue flying straight, accelerating to flaps retraction schedule speed, and after start the left turn ?

Sorry about my long post. Ñìóùåíèå

Best Regards

Alexandre Bastos

Bell · ÊÂÑ

You should start acceleration and turn semulteniously at the height of 900 meters. When climbing the bank alarm warns if the bank exceeds 15* and IAS is less than 340 km/h. Therefore you should not exceed 15* bank while retracting the flaps in turn until accelerated to 340 km/h, and after acceleration you increase bank to 25* as the chart requires.

Look at the bank angle alarm on the page 6 of the flight manual.

ABastos · Êóðñàíò

Thanks again Alexey!

That was exactly my doubt. How can I follow the SID if some mandatory maneuvers are forbidden due my configuration/speed. Just start a turn with bank of 15° while accelerate, and after 340km/h, bank of 25° (following the SID profile).

I'll submit MSRP records as soon as possible.

Regards Õîðîøî

Alexandre

WalterLeo · ÊÂÑ

In my thread Princess Juliana Intern (TNCM) at the end I gave a copy of the specialperformance departure in Salzburg (Rwy 16). This departure requires special permission of the Austrian authorities for the pilots and the aircraft. Flown with the Tu-154M you cannot comply with the tight turn to left even when flying 320 km/h,T.O. flaps 28 and bank 25 deg . This means you can not fly avery departure with every aircraft. In the case of LOWS this special performance departure in practice is very seldom necessary, because with a good southerly wind the visibility is normally good and you can fly the normal procedure, which doesnt require such a tight turn.

Bell · ÊÂÑ

Above I meant the recommended standard take-off procedure with regard to task # 2 and 3.

In case you need to execute a specific SID, you should operate in the limits
- while executing SID with an initial turn at Í>50 m, the bank no more than 25* is allowed.

I haven't idenitified the SID you meant, but if you can attach a screenshot I'll try to advise whether it is possible to execute this SID on Tu154 or not.

WalterLeo · ÊÂÑ

http://www.protu-154.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=171788#171788
on page 1 at the end is the SID LOWS one papa s.performance in the screenshot. On page 2 the screenshot how it worked for me (not tight enough!) maybe 320 km/h was too fast for 25 deg bank (306 km/h would be required by the procedure for 25 deg bank)

Thanks in advance

Walter

Bell · ÊÂÑ

So, Walter...

After consulting with FireFly we both concluded that it is possible to execute this particluar SID but there are some limitations.

As an example, I used Saturday's METAR for LOWS where the wind was 180* 3 knots, temperature 2*C, dew point 1*C, visibility 7 km.

1. The Flight Manual of Tu-154M recommends to execute initial turn at the speed of V2+40 km/h climbing with the bank no more than 25*. That means TOW should not be more than 80 tons. Otherwise you need to maintain at speed more than 306 km/h and increase bank more than 25*, that is accordingly not allowed by SID (exceed turn radius) and Flight Manual (bank limit) .

2. Using graphics provided in the FLight Manual we calculated that for keeping 16% minimum climb gradient as SID requires all engines should operate. The climb gradient of the aircraft in that case is equal to 20%. Failing one engine on take-off, the climb gradient for TOW 80 tons and speed V2 is equal to 12% that is lower than on SID.

3. For weight 80 tons the required take-off roll distance is 1800m and take-off distance 2000 m. OES is located near the line-up. Therefore, after rotate you should have about 1,7 km for climbing up to 2000' at OES 2 DME, and this requires 10,6% climb gradient that is enough to maintain V2+40 during normal take-off or keep V2 at this stage of flight in case something happened with engine.

Therefore, this SID could be executed on Tu-154M with low take-off weights and certain weather conditions. And, of course, no noise abetement at the monitoring point ¹5 due to take-off thrust.

WalterLeo · ÊÂÑ

Alexey:
Thanks and having time, ill try out that under that conditions.
Since I was born and grew up in Salzburg I still remeber the fuzz the local politic was creating if an airplane (mostly DC-9 from AUA) busted the noise limits, worst in summer during the festivals with their open air theaters...

Best greetings and thanks to firefly also.
Walter Óëûáêà

Tu154Pilot · Ïðàâàê

I'm all for aircraft that make noise! What is the point in burning fuel otherwise? Ñìåõ

I agree - Eurocrats... Çëîñòü

EDIT: The link to the English flight manual is working again.

Best regards,
Robin.